It sounds like the Apostle Paul believed in Universal Reconciliation ?

The following is a chain of posts from an online forum run by a VERY conservative and fundamentalist church. The post was started by me. I post it here because it offers an excellent view of how many Christians view the Doctrine (TRUTH) of Universal Reconciliation, and their arguments (or LACK thereof) against it. It also offers a birds-eye view as to why MANY non-Christians view Christians and the Church of Jesus Christ through the lens so vividly portrayed in the movie, "Inherit the Wind" -- a VERY liberal, Hollywood dramatization of the famous "1925 Scopes Monkey Trial", filled with MUCH "dramatic license".

There are four colors used: blue for scripture quotes, black for myself, maroon for speaker1, and green for speaker2



Romans 5:15b

....... For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many! 5:16 And the gift is not like the one who sinned. For judgment, resulting from the one transgression, led to condemnation, but the gracious gift from the many failures led to justification. 5:17 For if, by the transgression of the one man, death reigned through the one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ! 5:18 Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people. 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man (THE) many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man (THE) many will be made righteous. (NOTE: the Greek reads, "THE many")

1Corinthians 15:22

For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then when Christ comes, those who belong to him. 15:24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, .....

The first set of passages that we are going to consider begins with Romans 5:12-21 and 1 Cor 15:22. They are both FIRST in order and FIRST in significance to the theme under scrutiny. The Apostle Paul at this point rises to profound heights of mathematical logic as he labors to prove that the extend of redemption not only equals but EXCEEDS the extent of sin. His argument may be broken down into the following points:

1. Sin entered into the world through ONE man -- Adam. Through him, sin was passed through to ALL the rest of his descendants, or to ALL humanity. After Adam, NO ONE had a choice in the matter. They ALL came into the world as Sinners.

2. Jesus Christ, the SECOND Adam, came to nullify or undo the damage that the first Adam brought upon his race.

3. The Second Adam bears the same relationship to the human race, that of Father or procreator, as did the First Adam. Therefore, the results of HIS actions will be AT LEAST as inclusive as those of the First Adam.

4. Paul, however, claims that the results of the work of the Second Adam will FAR EXCEED those of the First Adam.

5. What were the respective gifts of the two Adams?? Through the First Adam SIN and DEATH spread to ALL MEN. Verse 15 states that by the trespass of the one man (Adam) the "MANY" died. Now let me ask you clearly -- Who are the "MANY"?? If the "MANY" does NOT refer to ALL humanity, then you are telling me that there were some SINLESS beings that Jesus DID NOT need to die for. However, Romans 3:23 and 5:12 say that ALL have sinned. Also, make a clear note of this -- This "MANY" DID NOT have to do anything to be constituted sinners. It was their inheritance from their father, Adam !!

6. Verse 19 goes on to say that IN LIKE MANNER, or according to the same rule or principle, the gift of the Second Adam will overflow to this SAME "MANY". If the "MANY" that received the gift of the First Adam means ALL of Humanity, by what possible manner of reasoning can you make the "MANY" that receive of the gift of the Second Adam to be anything less than ALL of humanity?? What is the gift of the Second Adam? It is nothing less than that the "MANY" shall be JUSTIFIED and made RIGHTEOUS!!!

7. Paul says, if our hearts and faith can be stretched to believe and receive it, that the gift of Jesus Christ will bring EVEN GREATER GLORY than this. He says that the "gift IS NOT like the trespass." The disobedience of ONE MAN brought death to the "MANY". How much greater weight of glory will be released into the universe by the OBEDIENCE of the ONE MAN, Jesus Christ??

8. In closing, it is noteworthy that Orthodox Christianity makes Paul to be a liar on this point, and the Obedience of Christ to be a trifling thing compared to the Disobedience of Adam. According to them, Adam's sin brought death and destruction to ALL men, while the GLORY of the Father will, in reality, impart Life and Righteous to only a VERY SMALL handful of humanity.

9. (1Cor 15:22) sums this point up quite explicitly. It states that, "As in Adam ALL die, so in Christ shall ALL be made alive." Perhaps at this point you will defend your doctrine of "Eternal Damnation" by insisting that even those in "Hell" are alive. Then I ask YOU, "Can they be 'in Hell' and be 'in Christ' at the same time??" As I read the scripture, it asserts that to be "in Christ" is to be connected to the Life of the Vine, to have the impartation of the Holy Spirit, and to be partakers of all of the gifts and fruits of the Spirit. In other words, it is to have "Resurrection Life and Immortality". As Paul further states in 2Cor 5:17, "If ANYONE is IN CHRIST, he is a NEW Creature. The old has passed away."

10. This line of reasoning is also contained in Isaiah 53:11,12, where Isaiah is foretelling the suffering of the Messiah. Here he states that the Messiah will justify "MANY", as He will bear the sins of this same "MANY".

Moving along, we meet with another of Paul's mathematical -- logical arguments in Romans 6:5-8 linked with 2 Cor 5:14. I would like to regress a moment for the sake of the mathematically minded among my readers, and consider the form of his logic on this point. It is the same form that he used in the previous point. Paul uses an algebraic formula that says if D=A, and D=B, and D=C, then D=A=B=C. Here is the analysis of Paul's reasoning based upon Romans 6:5-8 and 2 Cor 5:14:

D= IF we have been united with Him in HIS Death (or we have died with Him).
A= We shall be freed from sin
B= We will be united with Him in His Resurrection.
C= We will also Live with Him.

2 Cor 5:14 goes on to make the Glorious Assertion which the LOVE of CHRIST compels us to proclaim, namely, "That we are CONVINCED that one (Jesus Christ) DID indeed die for ALL, therefore, ALL have died." Theorem D is therefore true, "That we HAVE ALL been united with Him in His death." It therefore follows that Theorems A, B and C need also be true: that, "We have ALL been freed from Sin," "We ALL will be united with Him in His Resurrection," and "We will ALL live with Him." As in 1Cor 15:23, however, "Each in his own turn."

The theological mechanics of exactly HOW ALL Humanity died, first in Adam and secondly in Christ, are outside the scope of our present discussion. However, I am sure that you at least ACCEPT the fact that in the First Adam all died, rendering ALL Humanity sinful (you MUST believe this if you are an Orthodox Christian). This being the case, you are then COMPELLED to accept that in the Second Adam ALL died again, with the result being Justification to ALL Humanity.

Director, Total Love In Christ Ministries
http://www.tlchrist.info

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Wow, this is even more of a heresy than Arminianism. We must ask a very simple question at this point -

For Whom Did Christ Die?

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

1. All the sins of all men.
2. All the sins of some men, or
3. Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:
That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.
That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.
But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, "Because of unbelief."
I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"

The Arminian would answer number 1 above, that Christ died for all of the sins of all men BUT that this only makes their salvation "possible" and that each man by his own "free will" must come to faith in order to be saved. This is know as "Universal Atonement". The view stated in this post I believe would be termed "Universal Redemption" which would have us believe that Christ died for all men and as such all men WILL be saved, regardless of faith in Christ as their Savior.

My friend you are way off on this one. To say that my Savior died for no good sinners that hate Him and will never believe in Him rends my very soul in twain. The verses you refer to (if you would use the real Bible - KJV) are much easier to understand than you have made them. Romans 5.15 states plainly that "But not as the offense, so also is the free gift". This plainly means that the free gift DOES NOT atone for all men as the offense condemns all men to death.

The Arminian would have us believe that Christ died for all men (elect and those who would never come to him) so in other words the sacrifice of MY Savior was not GOOD ENOUGH or some men. That is absolute hogwash (for lack of a better term). Christ died for HIS ELECT and HIS ELECT only! Those who are not of Christ's elect will burn in hell forever and will in no wise participate in the salvation of Christ!

The Arminian and Calvinist would differ on who the elect are (but both are more accurate than the Universalist):

1. The Calvinist would say that God "elected" whom he pleased from the foundation of time and sealed them in Christ long before each of us was born. This necessarily implies that some are also destined for destruction from the foundation of time.

2. The Armininian would say that God elected us based upon foreseen faith on our behalf. This in essence make US the designers of our own salvation. This consequently is the prevalent view in evangelical churches today and I feel it to be sad that we have reached the point in which we are so self centered that we even claim responsibility for saving ourselves!

3. The Universalist (as this post implies) believes that ALL will be saved and NONE will go to hell. This view requires a lot of scripture twisting and goes hand in hand with ultra-modernist theology (actually you are hard pressed to find many liberals and modernists that would even buy this). Christ died for all and so all will be saved even if they rejected Christ all their life and died without regeneration. Sad, Sad, Sad.

To sum up "Universal Redemption" for those who don't see it yet - you may live your life however you see fit. You can be a homosexual that owns an abortion clinic and make a hobby of persecuting the Church, live your life in sin and debauchery and then die with no fear. After all, Christ atoned for your sins and you will go and live with Jesus forever - HOGWASH! Beware of this type of heresy, it is damnable!

In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson (As Good As It Gets)

"Sell crazy somewhere else buddy, we're all full up here!"

Don Hatcher

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I thought I was through with that last post but on second thought I decided that I had not properly flamed this blasphemous posting. Since we are discussing things said by the Apostle Paul, I would like to submit one more quote from the Apostle Paul and one from Matthew that deal directly with this matter:

Galatians 1.8&9

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Matthew 7.15

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

With that being established, I have a few questions for those who profess faith in this "universal redemption":

1. Did Christ come and die to effectually save men or just make salvation possible? Was it then theoretically possible that Christ could have died for sinners and no one been saved?

2. Did Christ ultimately fail in His purpose of dying? Will He really see the travail of His soul and be SATISFIED? (Isaiah 53:11) Is Christ really satisfied in the travail of His soul when He views Judas Iscariot, (for whom, you insist, He died just as much as for John and Peter etc.) as one gone to his own place where it would have been better for him never to have born? (Mark 14:21)

3. Do you believe that Christ died for those who were already in hell i.e. Cain, Pharaoh etc., when He came into the world? Did He willingly die for them, bearing away all their sins, even though He knew not one ounce of His suffering would ever avail them?

4. Where did Christ actually bear away the sins of those either already or now in hell or will be in hell when He died for them? Is it to the same place as that of the believer i.e. God's forgetfulness (Hebrews 10:17) If so, why are they being remembered now? If not, to what extent is the difference you are introducing?

5. If Christ suffered and died for those in hell who are now suffering and dying for their sins…is this not God exacting punishment for the same sins twice? Is this just?

6. Do you believe that in the Bible, words like "all" and "world" and "every man" always mean every last single thing or person unless specifically limited (e.g. 1 John 3:3) OR do you recognize that sometimes in the Bible, words like "all" means "all kinds of" (1 Timothy 6:10) and "world" means Gentiles as opposed to Jews only (John 12:19-20) and "every man" means "every kind of man" (Acts 4:35 / 1 Corinthians 7:2) without any specific mention of a limitation?

7. Do you recognize the distinct advantage of believing in Particular Redemption - that it actually will accomplish what it set out to achieve i.e. the certain, infallible salvation of those for whom it was intended? Do you recognize the distinct disadvantage of believing in a General Redemption which resides in a kind of vagueness and cannot claim 100% success?

Let all beware of this "different gospel" it is a quick ride on a short track to HELL!

Don Hatcher

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If you prefer a god of "punishment and vengeance" rather than one of Reconciliation - a god of "retribution" rather than one of Judgment and Mercy - a god who will see that we all get our "just deserts" rather than one who loves us with a Love such as will never cease its appointed task until "the last lost sheep has been found and brought home" - one who is governed by the "WILLS" of fallen creatures rather than by His own sovereign will - than no scripture quotes or arguments from me will change your mind.

You say that, ["To say that my Savior died for no good sinners that hate Him and will never believe in Him rends my very soul in twain".]. Were we not ALL "no good sinners who hated God", until He, in His Sovereign Love, choose to place His Spirit in our hearts so that we could see, hear, and come to Him ?? How long did He call YOU before you answered ?? Paul would say, as do I, "If God could save "The Chief of Sinners", why can He not save "ALL MEN" ?? Or should Romans 9:16 (below**) REALLY read, "IT IS of him that wills and runs, and REALLY NOT of God" !!

<< 1Tim 1:15

This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners ; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. >>

** << Romans 9:15

For he said to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then [it is] not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy. >>

<< Romans 11:32

For God has concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all . {concluded...: or, shut them all up together} >>

<< Phil 2:13

For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure. >>

Based upon your summation (below**), I guess it is STILL true what Peter said in 2Peter 3, that the words of Paul are STILL hard to understand !! No respected Christian Universalist, and certainly not I, claim what you stated. The TRUE summary would be that either through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ NOW, or through Judgment LATER, ALL will be purged of SIN and RECONCILED to God. For the rebellious and unrepentant, there is indeed, "a fiery day of Judgment. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" If you would like to spend the time and effort to arrive at an educated understanding of my position, you may do so HERE

** [[ Summation: "To sum up "Universal Redemption" for those who don't see it yet - you may live your life however you see fit. You can be a homosexual that owns an abortion clinic and make a hobby of persecuting the Church, live your life in sin and debauchery and then die with no fear. After all, Christ atoned for your sins and you will go and live with Jesus forever - HOGWASH! Beware of this type of heresy, it is damnable!"]]

<< 2Peter 3:15

And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you; 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. >>

Apparently even in Paul's day, there were those who COULD NOT or WOULD NOT reconcile the tension between SIN and GRACE. I answer your accusation with Paul's words, "Shall we continue in sin , that grace may abound? God forbid." !!!!

<< Romans 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin has reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin , that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin , live any longer therein? >>

As you say, there are three viable options regarding God and mankind's fate:

1. God WILLS that SOME men (the ELECT ???) be saved and others dammed. Man has NO choice.

2. God WILLS that ALL men be saved, but is incapable of accomplishing said "will", being overruled by man's "FREE WILL"

3. As asserted by Universal Reconciliation, God WILLS that ALL men be saved, and by His Sovereign Will and Irresistible Power accomplishes His Will. Said WILL being that, "at the conclusion of the ages", ALL creatures in heaven and on earth will be reconciled to God. That ALL will bow the knee in love and adoration to Him as Father, that ALL sin will be vanquished, ALL enemies defeated, ALL creation in harmony once more with its creator, that FINALLY, God may, IN FACT, be All-In-All.

I ask you to thoughtfully consider, Which is the "Damnable Heresy" ???

In closing, I would like to say that I find the following comment of "savedbyfaith 1963" very interesting and revealing. ["This view requires a lot of scripture twisting and goes hand in hand with ultra-modernist theology (actually you are hard pressed to find many liberals and modernists that would even buy this)."]

Thomas Allin, who lived from 1815-1901, wrote a VERY respected, VERY scripture based book, "Christ Triumphant", available HERE, specifically to refute those who accuse (ignorantly) Christian Universalists of ignoring and/or twisting scripture to their own end. As a matter of fact, he concludes that it is rather, THE OPPONENTS who are so guilty. Also, during the first 500 years of the church, (a far "purer" period than today) there were MANY of the Church Fathers and Theologians who supported the idea of Universal Reconciliation. See Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years ...... By J.W. HANSON, D.D. HERE

Director, Total Love In Christ Ministries
http://www.tlchrist.info

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First, there is no such thing as universal reconciliation. Therefore, Paul did not believe in it as he believed in the Christ that God provided for our salvation. In that Christ, you must accept God's redemption or you will perish. There is no second chance; you have your entire life on earth to make the choice. The point here has nothing at all to do with Paul. It has to do with universal reconciliation which is a false teaching.

God gave to ALL to be saved. He knows who will or will not chose salvation. There will be those who renounce Christ, therefore God Himself, and will thusly be burned forever in the pits of Hell because they have taken to the teachings and deceptions of Satan. They will be put in with Satan for eternity.

We have enough of God here to make the right choice. It is in His word (bible), it is in His creation, it is in His people, and in His miracles. Those that do not cling to God, will cling to the fire of Hell. This is NOT what God wants, but it is what man has the choice of.

Be warned: after you die, there are no more chances. You can not say "OK, I see that there is a God now", because you make the choice out of need rather than love. Animal instinct (preservation) rather than choice when you didn't HAVE to. And since salvation is not of works, you will never be able to "work it off" in purgatory or hell either.

Robert Evans

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Mr. Sir,

I mean no disrespect to you and I apologize if I have sounded condescending in my replies to you BUT I sincerely think you would have better success in gaining agreement to your viewpoints (all of them) if you posted to a more...shall we say - liberal - web site.

We are a pretty simple lot here at TBM without an abundance of initials after our names. We are God fearing, Jesus loving, Bible thumping members of the First Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ (THE Church). We ALL believe in a hot fiery hell for those who reject Christ and you are barking up the wrong tree in espousing anything short of those things here at TBM.

We are typically pretty easy going, we talk slow and don't get too excited BUT you come up in here talking trash against our beliefs and you are likely to get flamed fairly severely (ask Ms. Loonan - the abortion supporter). I take these things very seriously (as we can all attest). We love you dearly and pray that you may come to see the truth, but we will in no wise compromise our faith and lend no quarter to those who try to compromise it for us!

We do love the KJV, although we are not KJV-onlyists (we do not feel that the KJV can correct the Greek manuscripts) we are actually ONLY-KJVists in that we by and large only recognize the KJV as THE English Bible - and for this we make no apology whatsoever to anyone.

Our statement of faith is fairly simple and direct with no big words and is publicly displayed here.

Feel free to read it thoroughly and if after having done so you feel that you cannot agree with it then by no means feel obligated to stay and argue it with us, as I have said - you are wasting you time!

Don Hatcher

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Thank you for your post. It was honest, forthright, and sincere - and I appreciate that. We both love Jesus and are saved within His salvation - so though we may disagree STRONGLY on MANY points, we are still brothers. My how family sometimes DO fight and argue !! But, how can you have a good discussion with those who AGREE with everything that you say ?? Or how will you ever learn if you only talk to those who say EXACTLY the same thing ?? I seem to recall that Peter and Paul had some SERIOUS disagreements. I, also, sincerely hope that YOU one day come to see the truth as I did !! That is the purpose of my ministry. -- Love In Christ !!

Director, Total Love In Christ Ministries
http://www.tlchrist.info

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So even those that are enemies of God will be reconciled?

Robert Evans

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Who else WILL be reconciled and saved ?? Were we not at one time ALL enemies to God ??

Romans 5:8

But God commended his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies , we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. {atonement: or, reconciliation}

Director, Total Love In Christ Ministries
http://www.tlchrist.info

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OK, so Satan will be reconciled?????

Don't think so. Neither will ANYONE ELSE who does not repent and accept Christ. Once you die it is too late.

'Reconciliation' is redemption. You are redeemed by choosing Christ. If you die without accepting Christ, then you will die the second death and spend your eternity in hell.

Pretty simple really. If you do not do it in your lifetime, you will never have the chance to do it again.

Robert Evans

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Revelation 20:12-15

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and Hades delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I see no room for any confusion in this passage, those NOT found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire.

Don Hatcher

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Yes, and it is plain in the scriptures that it is for eternity.

Robert Evans

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While there are NO definitive scripture verses that DIRECTLY address this question about Satan, there are a number that express the idea that, at the conclusion of the ages, ALL things (creatures) will be reconciled to God and confess the Lordship of Jesus Christ. These verses DO seem to state that, at the conclusion of the ages, God will IN FACT, reconcile ALL THINGS (creatures) in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. That seems to pretty much cover ALL areas and ALL created beings.

Reference comment below**. You are making the assumption that the Lake of Fire represents the Ultimate END of God's dealings with creation. What do you use to SUPPORT this assumption ?? The scriptures that I have been referencing ALL ALONG say that at the ULTIMATE END, at the CONSUMMATION, God will IN FACT, reconcile ALL THINGS (creatures) to Himself !!

**<<"I see no room for any confusion in this passage, those NOT found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire.">>

Phil 2:9

Wherefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth , and [things] under the earth ; 11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rev 5:13

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth , and under the earth , and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. {having...: or, making} 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled {in...: or, by your mind in}

Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: {heaven: Gr. the heavens}

Director, Total Love In Christ Ministries
http://www.tlchrist.info

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The scripture references you gave are out of context and off-subject:

"Phil 2:9

Wherefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth , and [things] under the earth ; 11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

This is no way refers to reconciliation to those who reject Christ. It simply means what it says: all will confess that Jesus is Lord. If not now, then at the White Throne Judgment... you know, right before they are thrown into hell for eternity.

"Rev 5:13

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth , and under the earth , and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

Has nothing to do with supporting Universal Reconciliation.

"Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. {having...: or, making} 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled {in...: or, by your mind in}"

As I said in a previous post, this reconciliation is by redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ which you accept ON FAITH. Not after you are dead and standing in front of God, begging for mercy. You rejected God and He will HAVE to therefore reject you.

"Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: {heaven: Gr. the heavens} "

All things in Christ. To be in Christ, you must do what?

Romans 10:9-10

(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is the basis of what salvation is. This is what makes you in Christ. What's more, if you die without accepting Christ, you die the second death which is for all time.

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection[salvation]: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14

And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:25-27

(25) And the gates of it [heaven] shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (26) And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. (27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life [those who have ALREADY accepted Jesus Christ].

Universal Reconciliation is a dangerous and destructive apostasy. If you die without accepting Christ, you will perish. Cease. Be no more. And, no amount of explanations from dead theologians, or doctorates, will make a difference. God is just, and must be so even to those He loves when He HAS TO SEND THEM TO HELL FOR ETERNITY. It is not His choice or His desire to do this, but those who reject Him have brought it on themselves. Justice MUST be done, regardless.

The Gospel MUST be preached as it was given: repent and accept Christ now, because there is not another chance. Eternity is such a very long time....

Robert Evans

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It's been interesting exchanging views with you. I guess that the verse in my signature below sums up the balance of what I have to say. May the love of God in Jesus Christ keep and prosper you in all of His ways. Good-bye.

Director, Total Love In Christ Ministries
http://www.tlchrist.info

"I pray that according to the wealth of his (God's) glory, he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner person, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, so that, because you have been rooted and grounded in love, you may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and thus to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled up to all the fullness." Ephesians 3:16-19

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